2015: The North should forget power shift – Senator Owie

Senator Rowland Stephen Owie is one of the founding members of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP).  He was the Chief Whip of the Senate at the outset of the fourth republic. In this interview,  he takes us down memory lane as a cult member, but, today, a member of the Knight of St. John International. According to him, the seemingly popularity being enjoyed by the opposition All Progressives Congress, APC, will soon fade away.

He insists President Goodluck Jonathan will win convincingly in the 2015 presidential election. He admonishes northern elders to reciprocate the support they had enjoyed in the past from the South-south by supporting Jonathan, just as he asks them to end the Boko Haram insurgency which he says is political. Coming to his native Edo land, he expresses optimism that the PDP will take over after Governor Adams Oshiomhole’s tenure in 2016, saying that though the governor has done well, the PDP will take over from where he stops. Excerpts:



Congratulations on your induction into the Knighthood of St. John International. How were you able to transform from an Ogboni man to a man of God?
I thank God for my life. Sometimes I ask myself, why was I late in finding God? Like I said at the thanksgiving for the Knighthood of St. John, it is a great turn around. I am grateful to God and particularly to those who Christ used to convert me to Christianity, especially my wife, Lady Helen Noyo Owie.

That is why I said that if you find a man outside that exhibits goodness, you will know that the wife is good. If you find a man that exhibits wickedness, you trace that wickedness back to the home. I must say that every human being, particularly, Nigerians who want to live long, must ensure that there is peace in his home. No good wife, no long life. Now that I am a Knight of St. John, it has created the avenue for me to be nearer Christ.

From cultism to knighthood
There was a time I spoke about my life as a cultist. It is an experience. Those who were born into Christianity may not know the value of Christ; those who were born into the world into various secret societies, by the time you come out and find Christ, you will now know that it is good to serve the Lord. Because when you were in the world, with words of the mouth alone, you can do incantations and an area can be set on fire.

But when you now accept Christ and you go into word of God, you will see the difference. 2nd Samuel Chapter 15 v 30-31 tells us that David was told  that Ahithophel was one of those planning rebellion against him with the son Absalom. All he did, he said, ‘Father, (God), turn the wisdom of Ahithophel to foolishness and God heard his prayers. So when you are in Christ, the word of God is sharper than a sword.

It overpowers incantations. After I found Christ, I found out that the word of God is greater than incantations. As a child of God, He answers prayers according to His will; if you pray and He does not answer, just be patient; He will answer you at the appropriate time. At the other end, it is always a forceful thing.

For instance, you want to travel at night and you feel that on the high way you could be over taken by armed robbers or bad people, before embarking on that journey, kneel down and do some incantations that until you get to where you are going no vehicle should overtake you. Really when you do that, no body will overtake you until you get to where you are going. Any vehicle that tries will run into the bush or something will happen.
If you are to do that,  a few days after, there will be crisis in another part of your life because when the devil gives you power from the right it takes it again from the left. But when God gives you, He does not add sorrow. So we no longer think in that direction, I advise my people who are still there to know that the only way to the truth and life is Jesus Christ. All those things only bring temporary comfort and it means nothing, it is vanity.

Why do you think big and influential men in the society belong to cult groups?
In the first and second republics, for instance, cultism was very common in the political arena and among elders in Nigeria. But it is going down now because Christ is taking over. Unfortunately, you now see cultism among youths, it is no longer among elders. Among elders, cultism is going down because most of them are taking the word of God because at their age they now see that it is vanity.

But you can see that cultism is now in our universities and that is why I  say it that when our man, Wole Soyinka, founded the Pirates Confraternity, even though he did not mean evil when he set it up, he wanted it to be a moral booster in universities, it was not well tailored.

Cultism is now more dangerous among the youths than what it used to be among elders. So I think our problem is how to get the youths out of it, and that problem is more for women at home. A busy man may not have the time on how the children will be brought up and that is why I say children coming from homes where the mothers are responsible, 90 per cent are responsible.

Unfortunately, in a number of homes, parents will go and look for their daily bread, the children are abandoned to nannies and no care. That is why cultism is growing every day; women should look  inward and obey what in the Bible makes them good house wives and bring up their children in the way of God. Look at Boko Haram in the North? To end insecurity in the North or Nigeria, it must be dealt with from home, let women rise up to the occasion by making sure that the children are not on the streets for Boko Haram to use.

How were you purchasing materials for sacrifices when you were a cultist?
(Long laughter) If you are too busy, you provide the money for those who are willing to buy it and they will buy it. It is a very useless type of life, they will buy dog, buy ram, buy tortoise, all sorts of rubbish. The water you are going to use to bath will be smelling; even if you use the best perfume, it will not cover the smell of that water due to the concoction inside. It is so unfortunate, it is good to be in Christ.

You hate President Olusegun Obasanjo so much.  Did both of you battle in the spirit world?
I read him recently when he said politics should not be left in the hands of ungodly people. If there is any person that is ungodly in politics in Nigeria, he is number one. How do you identify ungodly people, you identify them when they get power and how they use the power. Throughout the short period that the late Yar’Adua spent as President of Nigeria, he never interfered in the affairs of the National Assembly, they chose their leadership without interference.

Since Goodluck became President, he has not interfered in what is happening in the National Assembly. Obasanjo was in prison when we formed the PDP, he was not a founding member of the PDP. I was. He was brought out of prison by Abubakar and I was at the meeting with my mentor, Gen.Ibrahim Babangida; Gen.Danjuma and co; the military class supported him.

Ekwueme was in the race, I supported Ekwueme during the primaries but I remember a day Gen. Babangida spoke to me in Minna, the late Chuba Okadigbo was there and he explained why they were bringing Obasanjo. Babangida said he had a burden in his heart after the annulment of June 12 which was not entirely his fault, but that he took responsibility, that they tried to correct the mistake by bringing Shonekan, but that government did not last.

So he pleaded that he needed a candidate from Egba where MKO hailed from. He said he knew I was supporting Ekwueme, but he would have preferred me to support Obasanjo.
And I told him that it was only when Obasanjo becomes the candidate of the party that I will support him. But I warned him that ‘this man you are bringing, by the time he comes into government, if he does not kill you, it will remain a little’.

And do you know that immediately Obasanjo was elected, the first statement he made was that all those who contributed to his election, ‘they should regard it as their contribution to the growth of democracy’. That time he even promised to spend one term and that is why I was laughing when he wrote Jonathan that letter.  The late Senator Kura Muhammed told me Obasanjo agreed to do one term.

But IBB, a great man, who does not know how to say no even to his enemies, decided to allow Obasanjo to run for  second term. I went to the then VP Atiku’s house with three senators and I said to him the opportunity he had to become President was to run against Obasanjo.  We wanted Obasanjo to go back to Otta after his first term. Atiku, because of his upbringing, decided to make a u-turn to allow Obasanjo to run for  second term.

Atiku is my friend but unfortunately he has gone to APC now to dine and wine with the agents of Obasanjo. Obasanjo is ungodly.
How could he write such a letter to Jonathan? He destroyed this nation. He was the one who expunged the Electoral Act provision in the 1976 Decree that brought the 1979 election.

Because the law was very clear that when there was no total victory, there will be Electoral College. NPP, PRP, UPN members had met and had enough majority to vote Awolowo to beat Shagari at the Electoral College. Obasanjo shifted the goalpost during the game by removing the provision of the Electoral College and that was why Awolowo could not become the President. It was Obasanjo regime that brought corruption into this country, himself and the late Murtala Muhammed administration.

Killing the civil service
Before their government came, top civil servants were very comfortable, they were what we called super permanent secretaries. They had their four-bedroom bungalows in the GRA, one year holiday in Europe, no corruption in the system. But when they started hearing their names on television, dismissed with immediate effect, the men that suffered for this nation; the people who survived started stealing in the civil service, that was the beginning of corruption in Nigeria.

Civil servants now steal for the rainy day because of the fear of being sacked. Obasanjo came in 1999, he destroyed NITEL, he destroyed Ajaokuta steel complex, he destroyed Aladja, he sold everything and called it privatization. He never bothered about the lives of Nigerians working there. Who will be more ungodly than that kind of government?

Opposition to Jonathan
How can the kettle  call the pot black?  How can somebody like Obasanjo talk about Jonathan signing for one tenure, if Obasanjo had such a letter he would have published it. And even if there is such a letter, what is wrong with Jonathan going for second term? The issue of Jonathan is a divine issue. He was a lecturer and became deputy governor. His boss was impeached by Obasanjo and Jonathan became governor.

He was planning to run as governor, he was made Vice President. His boss died and he became Acting President. Are you saying that is human? This is pure divine intervention in Nigeria. Let us face it, if South-south were to decide a candidate, I am not sure the people will bring Jonathan, they may decide to go for a more experienced politician but God’s ways are not our ways.

Are we now saying that because there is zoning, which is correct, as sitting President he should not run for second term?  That is rubbish. When Yar’Adua died, a political force majure was created in the zoning affair.
If we want to follow it and we say, let the Presidency go to the North in 2015, like some of our people like  Ango Abdulahi and Jumai Muhammed, we were colleagues in the House of Reps, 1979-83, with Sule Lamido, are shouting, we now say let it go to the North for eight years, then 2019 it will return to the South, certainly to the South-east that has not tasted power; after that eight years it will return to the North, that will be 24 years, before it will return to the South-south for us to complete our four years.

And because we have over 340 ethnic groups in the South-south, before we can find the candidate, the election will be over. The fight will be so much that they will take the thing back to where it came from. So it will be 24 years of waiting for nothing, then peace will elude the nation because the basin that produces what sustains this nation is the South-south that they are abusing today. So my appeal to some of these northern leaders including Ango Abdulahi is that the South-south and the North have been together. In the first republic, it was the NPC and the old Otuedo that worked together. It was our relationship with the North that enabled us to get Midwest created.

In the second republic, the South-south and North built bridges together. So our relationship has been permanently with the North, so the North ought to reciprocate now for the first time for a South-south President to be there, they should forget about this argument of power shift.

Instead of waiting for 24 years to solve a problem, why not use four years, 2015-2019, to solve it, let Jonathan run and rotation continues thereafter. I appeal to our northern colleagues to allow peace to reign and stop the killings in the North.
They should know that the South-south has always supported; so they must reciprocate that gesture now.

Defections
During our time, the amended Constitution was not there, so you could leave your party and still retain your seat. But with the amended Constitution, you decamp in the Senate or House of Reps, you lose your seat.
But the fact is that you do not need to leave your party before you say the truth about it. When we were in the Senate, three quarters of the National Assembly members in the PDP virtually stood as opposition to the Obasanjo government, while the opposition was wining and dining with Obasanjo.

His bill on NDDC, we overruled his veto. A PDP President with over whelming majority in the National Assembly, but we taught him some bitter lessons.
That tells you the maturity that we showed. But one thing is clear, let no senator mince words, any one that decamps must lose his seat. I like the way Senate President, David Mark, is handling the issue, he is not giving room to our colleagues to misbehave. The court has ruled that there was no division in PDP.

But you decamped from the PDP to ANPP to run for governorship in Edo State and you did not lose your seat.
At that time, the provision of leaving your seat and declaring it vacant was not there, which is now there. It was amended in 2011, the amended 1999 Constitution.

But don’t you have the fear that the APC will kick the PDP out in 2015 with its growing popularity?
With due respect to my good friends in the APC, I recall when a journalist asked for my view on Ngige  running for governorship on the platform of the APC in Anambra, I told him that Ngige was a good candidate but on a bad platform. The truth is that there is no way APC will not scatter. I want to see Buhari and  Tinubu locked up in one room for a meeting for 24 hours and  see which of them will come out alive.

Bola is a democrat, Buhari came to power and was jailing Nigerians for 400 years, how many years do people stay on earth that you jail them for 400 years?  Buhari has no respect for democracy and he wants to benefit from democracy. Buhari cannot campaign in a Christian community, Buhari will comfortably rule a Muslim country not Nigeria.

I don’t see Bola Tinubu in his clear conscience voting for Buhari. I assure you between now and the end of June, PDP will re-engineer itself and stand firm. PDP will win the presidential election hands down; before the election, half of the APC members would have returned to PDP. What you see today is anger because governors and National Assembly members fight each other. The governors see the lawmakers as a threat because many governors want to go to the Senate. APC honeymoon will soon be over.  I wish them luck but that luck does not mean they will win elections.

Your party, the PDP, in Edo has suffered several defeats in the hands of the APC. What are the chances of the PDP in 2015 in the state?
I agree that we have suffered defeats but I can assure you that things will soon change. One, Governor Oshiomhole, many people now in the PDP were part of the manure that grew him up and so, in his second coming, it was difficult for very many of them to fight a war of attrition. Now that Oshiomhole is on his way out, there is nothing again to consider by many people.

Remove Oshiomhole from the APC today and there is nobody except a few people with good heads. Oshiomhole is the unifying force. The moment a number of people now know that he is not returning as governor after his eight years, people will say let him finish the work he is doing and go. After him, APC in Edo will not win election any longer, PDP will win.

Perpetual governorship aspirants
I left PDP on August 15, 2002, I went to ANPP to run for the governorship of Edo when the masters of PDP said no vacancy in Government House.  It was from ANPP that we formed MDD, MRDD, ACD, ACN with people like Charles Idahosa. At that point, PDP members who were deregistered and a Rev. Father came to join us.  We shared the positions, the PDP group brought the Chairman in the person of Omoaghe, the ANPP  brought Amegor as Secretary.

There was no election that we did not share positions peacefully. But problem started in ACN from perpetual governorship aspirants and those same people are fighting Oshiomhole today in the APC. When Oshiomhole was at the tribunal, some top Binis even asked us to withdraw the case, that four years is small. But we went on.
Today, those who said we should withdraw from the tribunal are the ones enjoying Oshiomhole’s government.

When I left PDP, I never knew that the bees in the PDP were still coming through the deregistered PDP into ACN. They started again to bite me. The first thing they did was to hold a meeting on how to replace Oshiomhole while the man was just coming out of the tribunal. The second thing they did was to call a meeting that Oshiomhole should appoint a Bini person as Secretary to Government.

But I told them at the meeting that it was not right, that since the inception of the civilian government in the fourth republic, the SSG has come from the same senatorial district with the governor.
Three SSGs that Igbinedion appointed for eight years were Binis including Pastor Ize-Iyamu. When Osunbor came, he appointed Akhigbe who is from Iruekpen with him.

I told them they must allow Oshiomhole to pick some body from his area, but some of these people started attacking me because I told the truth. Oshiomhole now appointed Pally Iriase as SSG, very far from his area, while others were appointing their own brothers and in-laws.

The same thing happened during the appointment of the Chairman of Local Government Service Commission. I told them where there is no justice there can’t be peace. I told them second republic Gov. Ambrose Ali came and appointed his brother as Chairman, when Oyegun came, he appointed P.A Agho as Chairman, when Igbinedion came, he appointed S.I Ekhator; so I told Oshiomhole that the Chairman must come from his senatorial district but if he wanted to dash us we will take.

This permanent governorship aspirant in the PDP and now in APC said Senator Owie was spoiling their chances to control Oshiomhole. I heard now he is running again for governorship and wants to take the APC structure away from Oshiomhole.

Anywhere they go they want to destroy because they want to control but we are watching events very keenly. IBB said he did not know who will be President after him but he knew those who will not. I don’t know who will be governor of Edo  in 2016 but I know those who will not.
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